You've Been Warmed

Eco-Anxiety & The Impact of Climate Change in Kenya Now w/ Elizabeth Wathuti, Activist & Founder of the Green Generation Initiative

Episode Summary

Elizabeth Wathuti joins the podcast to describe how climate change is already affecting the Kenyan people, how they experience eco-anxiety, what her Green Generation Initiative stands for & the actions she wishes the international community took after COP25 in Madrid.

Episode Notes

Today's You've Been Warmed episode features an amazing guest - Elizabeth Wathuti - a climate activist from Kenya. She is the founder of the Green Generation Initiative which has helped plant over 30,000 trees in Kenya whilst educating children about climate change and its impacts.

She is also the recipient of the Wangari Maathai scholarship award  - named after the hero she never managed to meet - for her commitment to conserving the environment. 

Alongside Adenike Oladosu who was on the show before and Vanessa Nakate, she is one of the most well-known African activists, having participated and given talks at the recent COP25 conference in Madrid.

It was once again fascinating to talk to someone who is so involved in an African country - this time in Kenya - because as Westerners we feel that climate impacts are somewhere far away in time, when in reality they are far away geographically. Africa is already feeling the effects of climate change in a significant way.

We discussed how floods and droughts are affecting food crops, how kids in schools often rely on humanitarian aid to be able to eat, how they experience eco-anxiety because for them it is literally a matter of life and death and how she hopes to draw more attention to the region and get the international community to support Kenya and other African countries in adapting to the effects of climate change.

You probably know by now that I'm very passionate about giving this part of the world a significant voice, so enjoy listening to this episode and if you liked it as much as I did, do share it around and spread the word about Elizabeth's work. 

ELIZABETH'S RELEVANT LINKS

Twitter - https://twitter.com/lizwathuti

Facebook Page - https://m.facebook.com/lizmazingira/

Website - http://www.lizmazingira.com/

Green Generation Initiative Website - https://greengenerationinitiative.org/

TIMECODES 

3:40 - Her Background & How She Became An Activist

9:57 - The Green Generation Initiative

16:11 - The Impacts Of Climate Change In Kenya

22:32 - Why Kenyans Experience Eco-Anxiety

26:44 - Her Takeaways From COP25 In Madrid

29:38 - Her Outlook Towards COP26 In Glasgow

33:17 - Science vs Business vs Politics vs Society

35:45 - Elizabeth's Powerful Message To The World

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Professor Wangari Maathai - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wangari_Maathai

'Unbowed: A Memoir' book by Wangari Maathai - https://www.amazon.com/Unbowed-Memoir-Wangari-Maathai/dp/0307275205

 

Episode Transcription

Elizabeth: (00:00)
It's a place where people are worried about where is my food going to come from tomorrow? Where am I going to get? What are some, how is my child going to get medical attention in a place where they cannot even access the facilities and how are they going to even get to fill their families in a place where the agriculture system has probably been interfered with by the unpredictable weather patterns right now. So the challenges are now and we are not looking at imagining things. We are looking at things that are happening right now and how we going to save ourselves out of this situation and how we are going to get ourselves out of this mess that is costing peoples lives and costing and displacing the lives of the people that we know and we see it.

YBW Intro: (00:46)
Ladies and gentlemen, you've been more, it's time to figure out the climate crisis with the top scientists, activists and entrepreneurs helping us get out of this mess. Now let's welcome your host. Did I? Gosh, in three, two, one

Dragos: (01:11)
Days you've been wormed episode features an amazing guest. Elizabeth [inaudible], a climate activist from Kenya. She's the founder of the green generation initiative which has helped plant over 30,000 trees in Kenya, was educating children about climate change and its impacts. She's also the recipient of the one guiding Maathai scholarship award named after the hero. She never managed to meet for her commitments to conserving the environment alongside our DiNicola zoo who was on the show before and Vanessa Nakata. She's one of the most well known African activists having participated and given talks at the recent cop 25 conference in Madrid. It was once again fascinating to talk to someone who is so involved in an African country this time in Kenya because as Westerners we feel that climate impacts are somewhere far away in time when in reality they are far away geographically. Africa is already feeling the effects of climate change in a significant way.

Dragos: (02:19)
We discussed how floods and droughts are affecting food crops. How kids in schools often rely on humanitarian aid to be able to eat how they experience echo anxiety because for them it is literally a matter of life and death and how she hopes draw more attention to the region and get the international community to support Kenya and other African countries in adapting to the effects of climate change. You probably know by now that I'm very passionate about giving this part of the world a significant voice. So enjoy listening to this episode and if you liked it as much as I did, do share it around and spread the word about Elizabeth's work. So I'm joined now by Elizabeth [inaudible], directly from Kenya. Hail Elizabeth, welcome to the show. Awesome. I'm really excited to have you here. I love talking to activists such as yourself and I think you have a really interesting story to tell. So just wanted to dive in before we actually go into specifics. Tell us a bit for people that are not that aware of you. What's your background been so far as an activist and how did you actually get involved with climate activism? Because I know you started very early on you, you planted your first tree when you were seven years old. So yeah, just kind of tell us a bit about how you got here. So

Elizabeth: (03:40)
My name is Elizabeth [inaudible] and I'm an environment and climate activist from Kenya and I'm also the founder of an initiative called green generational initiative that focuses on nattering young people to love nature and be conscious of the environment at a young age. I grew up in one of the most forested regions in Kenya, known for its beautiful forest and that is near County. And this made me connect to nature and love nature at a young age and also love walking to school every morning because of the trees ahead of me, the bushes about besides me and the fresh bread. I mean for me it felt like an adventure and I always felt at peace with nature at that point in time. So this is something that made me have that love for nature when I was still young and I still remember planting my first tree when I was only seven years old.

Elizabeth: (04:30)
I became part of nature and nature became part of me. And for me, I believe that you might, his interaction with nature and our environment has got everything to do with how we have connected or even disconnected the natural environment. And all along my time and my life, nature has been my greatest teacher and I believe that my love for nature has made me become more conscious of what is surrounding me and become more conscious of how our environment is changing and being affected by human activities. And as a teenager it's always broke my heart whenever I saw or read about the forest being destroyed or banned down and just seeing the rivers flowing, plastic waste and even animals being overdrafted to extinction. And even in some nations seeing children struggling to breathe because the air was too bad and too polluted for them. So I felt like everything was happening so fast and I was so greatly disturbed and it worried me about how the future of our plan, who would over plan it would even look like.

Elizabeth: (05:31)
So that is why I decided to fully get into environmental activism since the age 2015 because all I wanted was for everyone to have a livable world and have a safe future because we are living in a planet where a lot of people do not care about how they're going to leave this planet for generations to come. A lot of people have inspired me, but my greatest source of inspiration see remains to be the late professor [inaudible] who was a Nobel Laureate and she really did a lot for the African continent in terms of protecting our environment and also promoting governance and peace and letting people know that governance piece and environmental are three things that can never be separated. [inaudible]

Dragos: (06:14)
Amazing. Yeah. Actually wanted to ask you about about her by one guide in my tie. Do you want since you, since you mentioned her already, do you want to talk a bit about her legacy and what she achieved and how she inspired you?

Elizabeth: (06:27)
When I was only seven years, but that time she was my member of parliament back at home and she really inspired a lot of people and especially women because it was a point in time when we were setting up two nurseries and planting trees in their homes and in a lot of places in my home County. And that is why I will say that at that point in time when I was growing up, there was a tree planting norm and culture at home. So she really inspired a lot of people. And I remember one thing that I wanted to do in one gym that I had as a young girl was to meet her [inaudible] and plant a tree with her. And I remember telling this to my grandmother who really valued education. And what she told me was if you ever wanted to leave focus on [inaudible], then you had to study hard just like she did to ever meet her.

Elizabeth: (07:21)
Because she was the first woman in Eastern central Africa to, I mean to, to, sorry, she was the first woman in central Africa to even get a doctorate. So this made me or give me a motivation to keep studying and working hard because I knew that if I was studying hard, then I would eventually come to meta. I joined the wildlife and environment club in my primary school and Steven went to hide to be inspired by half. And it is something that always gives me motivation to even study because that's like my grand mom had told me that if I study hard, then I was eventually going to meet [inaudible] in Atlanta. She will have, so this give me a motivation and I passed my exam so well and then I went to my secondary school again. I formed an environmental club and got a lot of students joining and we even got a patch in one of my most, one of my best mentors in high school who was my geography teacher.

Elizabeth: (08:20)
And she really inspired his all to keep embracing environmental conservation. But one of the saddest things happened when I was in my form three in secondary school when I allowed them to have the news that she had passed on. And for me it was really heartbreaking because I knew that my dream of ever meeting her, shaking her hand and planting a chew with her would never come to pass. So I felt as though everything that I ever dreamt about had come to an end and I was tanning just to meet her. And then all of a sudden I'm taking my studies in a land of her dead. So it's something really dropped my hat and I wondered what next I will do. And then it's what led me to just walk into the libraries and check of any material about how that would inspire me.

Elizabeth: (09:07)
And that is why I came across one of her books that still remains my favorite books up to date. That is called an bowed. And I felt as though she was the one speaking to me because it's a book about her story. It's a book about what she did. It's a book about what inspired her and this give me motivation to continue being strong and to continue pushing the environmental conservation agenda. And I know that what she achieved was in some mountable. But I believe that she keeps inspiring me every day to follow in her footsteps. And every time I read that book, it kind of gives me more power and more motivation and more inspiration to keep fighting for the future of environment and to keep fighting for a future that is going to help us. I mean for a future that is going to be safe for each and every person.

Dragos: (09:57)
Yeah, that's, that's amazing inspiration to have. And so then you had this inspiration, you sadly never actually managed to meet her. How did that lead to you founding the green generation initiative and what do you actually do within that initiative?

Elizabeth: (10:16)
So founding green Dillashaw initiative of course was inspired by many things and one of them was the fact that I knew that my childhood and my love and connection for nature at a young age had something to do with how I cared for the environment even as I was growing up. And I knew that it had something to do with how much I felt connected to the environment. And how much I felt that I should live with Canada better than I found it. That is why I decided to create this initiative to also natural more young people to love nature and be conscious of environmental to young age. Because I believe that behaviors and attitudes begin to change at a young age. And because if nobody instilled in me environmental consciousness when I was young, maybe I would not be caring about how I live today.

Elizabeth: (11:06)
Maybe I would not be caring about how my activities today affect the environment or the people surrounding me. But because that seed was planted in me of environmental conservation and Noah still young and again inspired by the literature for so song, I must die then. That is why today I am on the forefront in fighting for a better future and in fighting for livable walls now. So this initiative is basically to create a natural, more young people to grow up in that same love for nature and become good stewards of our environment today. Because I believe there is power in environmental education and there is power in climate education. And if we did not tap into the young people and the children when they assumed growing up, then we might end up losing an entire generation. So these, I had to start different activities that would help the children learn by doing because I learned by doing and that is why up to date, I still remember planting my first tree at the age of seven.

Elizabeth: (12:04)
That was my learning by doing activity. So one of the programs I started was an environmental education program that was actually a practical whereby the children don't just get to get the knowledge, but they're taught how to use that knowledge to change the planet and how to use that knowledge to impact the lives of people today. So this program has been running in different schools across Kenya. And also another program was a campaign that I dabbed adopted tree campaign, which is a company that ensures that every child in every school within Kenya gets to plant and adopt a tree each within their school component. And one of the most important things that I get to achieve with this campaign is that I am able to inculcate a tree growing culture among these children. And then number two, I am able to continue nurturing them to love nature and understand that they have a role to play in terms of environmental conservation.

Elizabeth: (13:00)
So this activity has really helped in making sure that the trees grow. Because a lot of places in the wild today and a lot of people in a lot of organizations and governments have started a project to plant trees. Well, we get feedbacks that all the trees that are planted probably not going to survive. So this particular campaign ensures that the trees get to grow. Because for me, impact is not about planting a million trees. But for me impact is about how many of the million trees actually gets to survive up to maturity. Because a tree has life. And just like we human beings, that's true. Leads tell the lab it needs care. And it needs to be natural for it to also get to survive just as we do as human beings. So that is why this particular campaign is really important in this initiative.

Elizabeth: (13:50)
And also along the way we notice that a lot of children in the schools that we were naturing and training in environmental education, most of them would remain in classes when we told them to break for lunch. And maybe we kind of assumed that the kids are probably catching up with their studies only to realize that it's only that they did not have anything for them to fill that day because of the issue of hunger. So we decided to start up a program as well to be able to provide something nutritious for them, at least to feed on when they are in school. Because when these kids go a day without food, it lowers their esteem and at the same time it interferes with how they're able to get understanding in the classroom. So what we did was just incorporating food forest establishment in our programs and by a food forest, I mean we get specific corners in the schools that the school designates to us and then those corners, we plant mixed types of fruit trees.

Elizabeth: (14:52)
And then of course when those food frees are outgrown, the foods can be used to facilitate or other to facilitate the schools feeding programs. And at the same time, remember this fruit tree is still a tree. So it has also increased the forest cover in our country. So that is also another program that we have been running. And then also some of these schools, the kids do not have the aspect of nature because maybe the school has no tree, maybe the school has no grass and all the kids sit on his best soil. And of course it is coaching sun. That of course makes it difficult for them to even live in school so well and even understand in this ad is, so we decided to start up a greening schools program where we ensure that we bring later to them where we ensure that we try and beautify the school in a way that they can be able to understand that there is a value that comes with nature. So this program has really helped a lot of school children, not just to improve in their studies, but also become good stewards of nature and they are changing their communities. They are changing their parents and they're changing the society at large. So I believe there is power in environmental and climate education and there is power in nurturing young people to love nature and become conscious of the environment when they are still young.

Dragos: (16:11)
I cannot agree with you more and it definitely starts apropos to what you said earlier. It definitely starts at a young age. I was really impressed when you, when you said that you want to ensure most of the trees survive because I think it was a few days ago that I posted some news in Turkey. They had a national reforestation day a few months ago and they planted, I can't remember, they planted at an absurd amount of trees, like a lot of trees. Basically everyone went out and they planted, I don't want to say maybe hundreds of thousands of trees. And they realized after a few months that 90% died. So it's, it's, yeah, it's about the thing that if you don't, if you don't have people who know what they're doing or are educated and how to do it, the trees don't actually survive. And you've done everything in vain. So I wanted to ask you, what's the because he spoke about hunger and that's, that's absolutely devastating in schools. What's the perception of climate change? What are the effects of climate change right now in Kenya? What do people feel, how are they affected and what are the things that maybe people who are listening right now in Western Europe and DUS probably are not aware of?

Elizabeth: (17:35)
So climate change is a reality here in Kenya and the impacts have already hit home. And towards the end of last year we experienced heavy, erratic rainfall that wrecked havoc leading to landslides, mudslides, and even floods. And we lost people. People died, other people were displaced. And this was a sad state because the capacity to adapt to these impacts in Africa at rides still remain slow. That means that when this gives us, has heat, then we lose a lot of people. And then we get a lot of people being displaced at the same time. You've also had a lot of challenges, right? No, especially due to the changing weather patterns and also due to the unpredictable weather patterns in our country, we depend on rain fed agriculture and in fact a lot of people here depend on agriculture and all farmers right now have had to be put in a situation where they are guessing the rains, they do not know when to plant and they did not know when to harvest because the seasons have changed and nothing is predictable anymore.

Elizabeth: (18:41)
This has really affected food security in the country because in a place where we depend on refund agriculture, then it means that if the farmers are having difficulties even predicting the seasons, then this directly affect food security and puts us as a country at a risk of hunger in the future. And even now, not even in the future. So these challenges have been Hadley, there've been hardly felt in especially the dry parts of the country because as I speak now most of the places that are being affected by the floods months ago they were affected by drought and a lot of these people had to depend on relief food for them and their families because drought hit most parts of the country, even part of the country that have never been hit by drought and these are places that whenever a drought hits, of course people are left with nothing to it and of course people do not have food, they do not have water and they're forced to depend on relief food.

Elizabeth: (19:42)
Also this month of January has been a different month here in Kenya because it's known as the hottest and the driest month of the year. But as we speak, even now we are still experiencing heavy, erratic rainfall in most parts of the country, which is something that is totally different from what we normally see. And of course to a lot of people they can't see that something is actually wrong and something is changing and there is something that is actually not right with the way things are going on. And another challenge that we have currently facing is that we are now faced with the West. There's a block in ration in 25 years and this, there's that locust of course destroy everything along their way. And whenever the invader place they can consume, I mean they can destroy everything along their way. And this has really become a bridge to our food security here in Kenya.

Elizabeth: (20:34)
And these are just few of the many challenges that we are facing as a country today. And I think the greatest challenge that comes with all of these is that we still have a low capacity to adapt to this impact. And for us, change is not about the future each about now because the impacts are already with us right now. And the challenge is how are we going to overcome them. And the biggest challenge is how are we even going to adapt and deal with the situation. Right now, a lot of the most affected people still remained to be women and children. The women are the people, especially in the Northern parts of Kenya right now. Whenever the drought hits, the women have to walk for long distances. And some of them even carrying the tutors water and food for their families. And it's a really sad situation because we have not still informed them.

Elizabeth: (21:27)
I mean, we still remained part of the most uninformed part of the wild right now in terms of the climate crisis. These people do not know about how to even adapt to these impacts because if we have empowered them enough, then they would be in a position to even I mean adapt. But now it is an, it is not an empowered group right now because we have kind of left behind the most vulnerable we have left behind the victims of the climate crisis. We have left behind the people that are suffering each and every day from this impulse and we are not focusing on them. We are not listening to them and we are not giving them a space on the table and we're not helping them adapt to this crisis. So these are some of the challenges that we have been facing the country right now. And of course a lot of people see that there is a problem, but what happens is that most of them still do not understand the aspect of climate change and what it is that they can do to help reverse the situation or what they can do to help reduce the impacts or make it a little more adaptable.

Dragos: (22:32)
Yeah, I understand. And I kind of wanted to tie that into an article that came out I think yesterday as we're speaking now in the guardian where you talked about echo anxiety and I assume you say that a lot of people they can see the effects, they don't really know or are not educated as to what causes them, but those who know what causes them and know things presumably are going to get even worse. They experience echo anxiety. Can you go into a bit more detail on that? Like what do you observe, what are the symptoms? How do people, and I assume children, the young ones usually react.

Elizabeth: (23:16)
Yeah, sure. So in Africa and I'd just like to be specific with, okay maybe in Africa it is a matter of life and death and of course everyone right now is struggling to survive and we are worried about them going in part from the climate crisis. And it is something that is totally different from the rest parts of the world because a lot of people in the rest parts of the world are talking about how bad the climate question is going to be. But here in Africa we are worried because the impacts are already here with us. It is a daily reality for us here. And our worry right now is not about the future. It's about now. And it's about how bad things are going to get right now because we can already see the impacts that are happening at this moment in time.

Elizabeth: (24:02)
So climate change has always been a reality for us in Africa and I mean we feel the impact every day and a lot of people usually say that maybe will be the hottest hit by the impact of the climate crisis. But the reality is that Africa has already had to go through a lot of challenges as a reality of the climate crisis that has already hit home right now. So the thing about echo anxieties in Africa is that it is not a future concern. It is the moat now because it's a place where people are worried about where is my food going to come from tomorrow? Where am I going to get water from? How is my child going to get medical attention in a place where they cannot even access the facilities and how are they going to even get to fill their families in a place where the agriculture system has probably been interfered with by the unpredictable weather patterns right now. So the challenges are now and we are not looking at it modeling beings, we are looking at things that are happening right now and how we are going to save ourselves out of this situation and how we are going to get ourselves out of this mess that is costing peoples lives and costing and displacing the lives of the people that we know and we see every day. So it is about a concern now and it's not about a future concern in the African continent.

Dragos: (25:27)
Okay. So it's a present concern that people are experiencing echo anxiety. I guess as part of your activism, you, you're one of the most well known African activists and you actually traveled to Madrid for cop 25 in December. What was the experience there or like from your point of view, how was it to be surrounded by all the other activists? Which at at least from my point of view, from what I observe, they actually, so people like, like Gretta and obviously all the other activists from all over the world, they actually behave as they should when it comes to Africa. They're extremely concerned. They want to lift you guys up, they want to generate awareness about the situation there. But when it comes to the political leaders, it doesn't really seem to be like that. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Africa is kind of marginalized, ignored at these talks and usually from what I've read from other reporting, there are Western countries such as the U S Brazil and Australia at least countries from the more developed world who are constantly blocking any progress to be made in the stocks.

Dragos: (26:44)
So just, I dunno, tell us a bit about your, your experience at cop 25 and how you think the results actually came through.

Elizabeth: (26:56)
Cause I'm a change is kind of being seen as a Western issue when the real impact and the challenges are being faced by the African people. And yet the African people still remain underrepresented in big conferences like [inaudible]. And I mean it is something that has always happened for ears that the voices of Africans don't get to be hard and they don't get to be at the table. And even when they are on the table, it still sounds like an I westernized issue. Instead of listening to the people who are facing these impacts everyday instead of giving a chance to the people in Africa to tell their stories on what is happening each and every day as age. So for me, being in cop 25 I had a lot of hope. I had a lot of expectations from the conference and had a lot of expectations from the politicians and from everyone else who was attending there that we were going to start beginning to pay attention to the crisis and by of course, paying attention to the victims who have to suffer every day from the implants.

Elizabeth: (28:01)
But this is something that I did not see it even being given attention because it is in Africa that we see people dying. It is in Africa that people lose their livelihoods. People lose everything that they ever knew from the impacts of the climate crisis. But in a conference like 25 I had a lot of, a lot of expectations to hear issues such as loss and damage and adaptation to the climate crisis being given a fraud consideration. But these are issues that were not even being given a priority and we could not even hear them being discussed in these conferences. And so I wanted to leave. What is it that we were discussing? What are we discussing a future? Well, there are people that are already have been college changed as a now concern. So instead of, I mean instead of listening to the big teams and the people that are suffering from this crisis right now, what is it that we are putting all our energy in the future that we don't even know for us if it's going to be sat in because we are worried about what is already happening right now.

Elizabeth: (29:03)
So I never saw that. I did actually really coming up in terms of how these people that are already suffering from the impacts of the climate crisis such as the African community is was being presented. This is something that did not really come up with in such a big conference where we expected people to pay attention to those that are suffering most and you pay attention to those who suffer from what they keep talking about everyday. Because for us it's not about imagining what is going to happen. She does a much what we see and face each and every day of our lives.

Dragos: (29:38)
And okay, so that, that was cop 20. Do you plan to attend cop 26 in Glasgow this year and do you think there's going to be any significant progress to be made? Do you have any plans in that respect?

Elizabeth: (29:54)
Yeah, I think the past few years we have tried to do a lot of awareness and we've seen a lot of people not beginning to talk about climate change. And we've also seen a lot of politicians and a lot of organizations and a lot of people who are like political leaders trying to talk about climate change. But again, we have also seen a lot of greenwashing where people want to really look good, the one to just appear see if they are addressing the crisis in a pic. They are concerned about the environment when they are the biggest polluters. So one of my expectations in this [inaudible] is that this being a decade of action, we are just tired of the talks and the promises every day from these people. We want to start to see real action and we of course do not want to see the brainwashing because I mean the the polluters have to be kicked out at this point in time because we cannot keep talking about an issue that is already affecting leaders right now. I mean we are already behind time and if we don't take action right now then we are going to make the situation was for those that are already suffering from what is happening right now. So that is my biggest expectation from cop 26

Dragos: (31:09)
What do you think you guys as activists can do? Is there anything that you can do more than what you're doing right now?

Elizabeth: (31:18)
I guess we are already doing more at this point in time because we are trying to raise attention to an issue that is being ignored by the wall and initial that is being ignored by the people who hold the power to make the decisions that we are trying to make them to do. And I think at this point in time we have actually stopped to beg them and we've actually started to demand because it is our right to have climate justice and this is our right to have the climate crisis addressed because we are the ones that are going to live longer with the consequences. So we will keep doing what we are doing in terms of activism and we'll keep putting pressure on governments and the people in power so that they can do their fascia because we are already acting as young people.

Elizabeth: (32:04)
For example, I am running my initiative right now to try and increase the tree cover in my country to try and nurture young people and to try and bring climate education home to inform our people. But the people in power have the opportunity, they have the power, they have everything that it takes if they want to to turn around this situation because they are the ones who hold the biggest positions in the world right now. So we want to see them taking action. We want to see them taking bold actions right now and we don't want them to just look at us and tell us how, how give them hope for the future when they are the ones that are holding, when they are the ones that are, when they are the ones that are making us nodes. I mean when they're the ones that are kind of indigenizing our future because we are not such a [inaudible] future. The was right now is not livable and these people in power are the ones that can get the only ones that can make these decisions because the other ones that have the power and the dolls are in a position. But of course if they don't do it then we will keep pushing them and we will of course do the best that we can to turn the situation around because we cannot for George as a future get down to the dream.

Dragos: (33:17)
Yeah, I completely agree and I guess everyone who's listening to this is trying to do the same in whatever role they play individually. I want it to go to the last question that I usually ask every guest. And some people think it's it's a trick question. Some people choose to answer it, so just do whatever you feel like. I basically ask every guest to rank the following sectors in order of their importance to tackling climate change. So rank them one through four and the sectors are the following. So politics and policy. So by this, you know, anything that governments can do or D, D international bodies at these conferences, any actions they can take to tackle climate change. The second one is society. So the activism that you do the civil disobedience that's pioneered by extinction, rebellion, any lifestyle changes that we can make as individuals. The third one is businesses. So businesses in meeting emitting less stopping the funding of fossil fuels, providing alternative transport methods and obviously there's a ton that they can do. And then the fourth one is scientific research and innovation. So any breakthroughs that we might have in energy efficiency in battery power, in storage, in nuclear technology. If you are to rank those one through four in order of importance to technic climate change or if you just wanted to talk about the relationship between them, what would you say?

Elizabeth: (34:48)
I think what I would say is that for me every sector is equally important and there is no sector that needs to rag behind when others are moving forward because we are in a state of an emergency and we cannot afford to have some issues ahead of other issues. So I think each and every person and stakeholder right now has a key role to play in terms of helping address the climate crisis. So when it comes to the politics, the policy, the society, businesses and scientific research, all these sectors have to work together collectively in, I mean collectively and in a participatory approach to help ensure that we address and tackle climate change. So we cannot say that one is important as compared to the other because all these sectors are equally important at this point in time when we are in a crisis.

Dragos: (35:45)
Okay. That's fair enough. I mean, as I said, I prefaced it as a, as a trick question. So some people, some people rank them and some people don't. But that's absolute amazing. Thank you so much Elizabeth, for your time. And for the perspective that you shared on Kenya and Africa in general is there any, any message that you want to send to listeners or anything that they can help you with?

Elizabeth: (36:11)
Yeah, I think maybe one thing I would like the whole wall to know is that we always feel bad when people, all the aspects of climate change I see. It is something that is not happening for us that face the challenges and the impacts every day. It is devastating for us and it is sad for us and it gives it, it breaks our hope to just listen to the wild, to think of this issue as if it is an unexisting issue. I think it is an issue that is not important. And I remember at some point in time I shared something and someone told me that they don't see any climate change in Africa and I told them that you don't have to see climate change in Africa because you are not in Africa. We the ones that are here see it every day.

Elizabeth: (36:56)
We the ones that are here suffer from the impacts everyday and you're worried about how it's going to be if the challenges are not addressed right now. So I hope Noah, the whole world can begin to pay attention to the environment today and I hope the whole world can begin to put the people in the planet above the profits. Because if we don't do that, then it means that we do not even care about how we are going to leave this planet for generations to come. And this planet as it's all a state, it's not. It's borrowed from our children. The best that we can do is to give back a planet that is livable now so that we can have a safe future because we are not setting of a safe future. If that livable world that we are talking about is not yet present for us now.

Elizabeth: (37:41)
So we hope that the wild and the people and everyone else out there can begin to pay close attention to environmental matters because it is an issue that is affecting millions of people out there. It may not be affecting you right now, but there are millions of people out here in Africa that I had been to die and suffer every day from the impacts of the climate crisis. And it is impulse that they did not even create themselves because Africa still remains the least contributor to the global, to the global greenhouse gas emissions and yet suffers the most from the impact of the climate crisis. So the only fed that the wild can do right now is to take action and address these crisis right now.

Dragos: (38:25)
Thank you so much. That's a really powerful message and there's nothing I can say that we'll, we'll end it on a better note than that. So I'll just, I'll just leave it at that. Thank you so much for your time.

Elizabeth: (38:36)
Okay. Thank you so much.

Dragos: (38:38)
Can I go share again? Thank you so much for listening to this. You've been wormed episode. I really hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Now you can find all the episodes on our website and it's www dot you've been warmed.com both in audio and written forms so you can find the transcriptions on there. I'd love for you to reach out to me on Twitter and tell me what your favorite episode has been thus far, or if you have any feedback on the episode they just listened to. My Twitter handle is at DRG Stephanie schools, so DRG coming from [inaudible], my first name, and then Stephanie school, which is my last name. And finally, if you want to get notified when new episodes are out, subscribe to this podcast and consider dropping a review for us if you enjoy the content that's all for now. See you soon.